JavaScript Trauma Fuels Static Typing Obsession

Description

This is a two-panel meme using the 'Principal Skinner's Pathetic Fallacy' format from The Simpsons. In the first panel, Principal Skinner is looking thoughtfully out a window with the text: 'COULD IT BE THAT MY OBSESSION WITH STATIC TYPING IS ACTUALLY A KNEE-JERK REACTION TO TRAUMA CAUSED BY JS?'. In the second panel, he has a moment of realization and quickly dismisses the thought, saying, 'NO, ALL DYNAMIC TYPING MUST BE BAD'. The meme humorously captures the sentiment of developers who have experienced the pitfalls of JavaScript's dynamic and loosely-typed nature, such as unexpected runtime errors. It suggests that their strong preference for static typing (found in languages like TypeScript) is less a purely objective choice and more of an emotional overcorrection born from the 'trauma' of debugging JavaScript

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DynamicTyping StaticTyping LanguageWars TypeSafety Javascript DeveloperHumor CodingHumor

Comments

Anonymous ★ Top Pick The five stages of JS grief: denial, anger, bargaining for a lodash function, depression when you see '[] + {}', and finally, acceptance... of TypeScript

Anonymous ★ Top Pick

The five stages of JS grief: denial, anger, bargaining for a lodash function, depression when you see '[] + {}', and finally, acceptance... of TypeScript
Anonymous

I swear I’m not anti-dynamic… it’s just that every time I remember chasing “undefined is not a function” at 2 a.m. on Node 0.12, my fight-or-flight response autogenerates 300 lines of TypeScript generics
Anonymous

After spending three days debugging a production issue caused by '[] + {} === '[object Object]', you too would start treating every untyped variable like it's carrying a ticking time bomb. The real trauma isn't the dynamic typing - it's explaining to the CTO why a simple equality check brought down the payment service
Anonymous

After years of debugging 'undefined is not a function' at 3 AM in production, many senior engineers develop what psychologists call 'JavaScript PTSD' - a condition where the mere sight of 'any' in TypeScript triggers fight-or-flight responses. The real irony? We've now created type systems so complex that the type errors are harder to debug than the runtime errors we were trying to avoid. Perhaps the real trauma was the friends we made along the way... in the #typescript-help channel
Anonymous

JS trauma so real, static typing feels like compile-time bail bondsman for your runtime felonies
Anonymous

After enough JS, you realize static types are prepaid incident credits: a compiler screaming “Type ‘never’ is not assignable” beats prod screaming “undefined is not a function.”
Anonymous

Policy update: after double-equals took prod down, we encode invariants in the type system - and politely ignore that TypeScript erases them at runtime
@JManray 2y

JS is disgusting
@JManray 2y

Full stop
@deadgnom32 2y

it's trauma caused by Java
1. @dsmagikswsa 2y
  
  Java-Script
2. @JManray 2y
  
  I'm a Java dev and I fucking hate Java. I would still rather be in Java than JS. Shits gross
  
  @RiedleroD 2y
  
  as a dev who (forcibly) uses java and javascript, yea
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  it depends on the use case. I preach often, that JS is like mathematics, you must take care yourself, to not apply some operator to a wrong entity.
  
  @JManray 2y
  
  Imma be real chief, there is no use case for JS to me. It's cringe and should be eradicated
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  let's say matrix multiplication. it's meaningless by itself it gains a meaning depending on case with square matrices, aka. linear operators, multiplication works like function composition. with adjacency matrices it shows common neighbors of two systems. but a diablo 1 map can also be displayed as 2D array, aka. matrix. if you multiply 2 maps you will get trash in result, even though interface can be applied. the same is with JS. you need to think what you do. not all can do it, many programmers can only scroll through hundreds of methods looking for one doing exactly the task they want to solve.
  
  @callofvoid0 2y
  
  then how would html5 games work ?
  
  @RiedleroD 2y
  
  wasm
  
  Deleted Account 2y
  
  for scripting it's better then lua
@qwnick 2y

They are all bad, tho
1. Yuri 2y
  
  If they are all bad, maybe the problem is not with them...
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  with them, cause static type PLs are not all bad
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  ofc are they not. but you need static typing, where you need static typing, and you need dynamic typing, where you need dynamic. you don't need to generate hundreds of temlated classes where you just could use dynamic types.
  
  Deleted Account 2y
  
  just use agda haskell
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  yes
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  they help you do your work at least, instead of punching you in the stomach telling you something like "I know what you meant to do, but write it more explicit with more bloat code" oh yeah, great, the compiler understands me, but don't wanna be friends with meee
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  Lol, and also you have to make sure that each method that accept string(or any other data type) will cut all other possible data types. gl with that
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  what?
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  you wrote a method that compare 2 strings, user sent a integer and class into it, how will you handle it?
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  throw an error. dude
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  throw an error for what case?
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  just fail fast ever heard of it?
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  how much code do you need to write to decide is this error or not, and can it be casted in the string correctly?
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  0
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  bullshit XD
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  you just don't get how to do it
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  tell me then
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  you misplaced it with Java
@RiedleroD 2y

…there's autocompletion for regular js too, yknow
1. @x4erem6a 2y
  
  Yeah, powered by the typescript language server
  
  @RiedleroD 2y
  
  yep, but that doesn't mean you have to use ts
  
  @x4erem6a 2y
  
  You don't have to but if you're still relying on ts tooling there's little difference. The only advantage of using js is not having a build step, which is probably pointless because you will still use some kind of bundler/transpiler most of the time.
  
  @RiedleroD 2y
  
  will I though? what for. My php+nginx website runs good as is
@RiedleroD 2y

still exists for regular js, in my experience
@RiedleroD 2y

odd
@Araalith 2y

I use static typing because 'dynamic' is a type.
@x4erem6a 2y

Typescript compiler can typecheck js just as good as ts, it supports special jsdoc syntax for type annotations in comments.
@RiedleroD 2y

again, odd. It does work for me 🤷‍♂️
@x4erem6a 2y

Just create a tsconfig and set it to something like allowJS: true checkJS: true strict: true
1. @RiedleroD 2y
  
  I don't have a tsconfig…
@RiedleroD 2y

kate with the regular ts LSP
1. @RiedleroD 2y
  
  it's preconfigured, you just gotta get it to find your project root
@x4erem6a 2y

Your data is any, there's nothing to suggest. You should give it a type, just like in ts.
@RiedleroD 2y

because data is of type any here, obv you won't get far with js here. I get what you mean now, but that's not really a problem for me because of how I usually program js
@RiedleroD 2y

fair
@pwnzkk 2y

Both js and ts are cool. There are cases though when typing becomes too overcomplicated for some tricky functions and it doesn’t work, so I would say it’s cool to use typescript when typing and fighting with compilation errors is not 90% of your coding. Personally I love ts for its type system and js for flexibility, so just choose your poison :)
1. @Araalith 2y
  
  For 'overcomplicated' cases (lets pretend they are real) you can resort to 'any'.
  
  @pwnzkk 2y
  
  right, you can always rely on any as a last resort
2. @NaNmber 2y
  
  as unknown, then pass to typeguards / inline checks to narrow down type (without making runtime vulnerable)
@anilakar 2y

My coworker can't open other people's Python code without spending four hours writing type hints
@deadgnom32 2y

don't put number where string is expected
@deadgnom32 2y

let the service die in such case
@deadgnom32 2y

easy
@deadgnom32 2y

I did already
1. @qwnick 2y
  
  you did not, you said that you will write 0 code to handle other data types
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  you just don't handle them. you will get a compile error a forehead, and fix it, by not putting other data types into a function expecting string
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  why would you get compile error?
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  bc you put a number where none belongs to
@deadgnom32 2y

you just don't get it
@qwnick 2y

which is obviously bs
@deadgnom32 2y

that's it
@qwnick 2y

you don't have types to get compile error
1. @deadgnom32 2y
  
  in haskell?
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  no, I was talking about js
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  https://t.me/dev_meme/5561?comment=93488
2. @deadgnom32 2y
  
  dude. that's just funny
@qwnick 2y

or any other dynamic type in function definition language
@deadgnom32 2y

look precisely
@deadgnom32 2y

it's about haskell
1. @qwnick 2y
  
  sry than, I meant that js suck, not haskell
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  well. according JS why the hell should user do anything with code?
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  it still can by weakly casted to something and executed somehow, but result will be trash if you dont put strings into it. the problem is not JS, it's a programmer
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  There is bugs in any programmers code. Difference that it is much easier to catch if it's static typed language, compile error is much more comfortable to work with, unlike runtime error in prod
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  this is pointless. yeah. you are right. that's why all the data scientists and engineers use pandas. they are just masochistic bastards who love to suffer. I get it.
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  your cumfort is just bent to your use cases, until you run into one, where you will need to handle hundreds of types by hand, where just a generic Anything type is needed
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  -> handle hundreds of types by hand what do you mean?
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  if your interface is so abstract, that it can handle every or nearly every type in statically typed language you just use workarounds like upcast to a generic object or templating sugar, which generates every version of statically typed function bloating the binary. just take a dynamically typed language instead
  
  @qwnick 2y
  
  took, you still have to handle hundreds of types by hand, but now you don't have compile error if you made a mistake somewhere XD
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  no you don't
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  you know, what invariants are for?
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  ima data engineer, I do work with hella a lot of types on very few interfaces. static typing is just a lot of needless work. because oftentimes I just need the layout of the data independently of the type. I just don't care
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  if I do care, I can explicitly cast it to some type ensuring it invariantness, and then I just know, a string is a string. and never a number or anything. what can't be converted either makes the service instance die, that it intended and handled elsewhere, or just left out of the data set with a warning
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  just use right tools for the right purpose
  
  @deadgnom32 2y
  
  and lastly, no. not every program has bugs there are methods to write mathematically probable algorithms. they always work correctly.
@deadgnom32 2y

you write function to compare 2 strings and put a number there well, why?
@deadgnom32 2y

if you don't, then let it be the end of the conversation, bc it's just pointless without knowing how to use invariants
@ColonelPhantom 2y

I never used JS and I'm still obsessed with static typing, checkmate atheists
@golergka 2y

It’s love caused by Haskell

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JavaScript Trauma Fuels Static Typing Obsession

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